Natalie is joined by Bob Betts, MD of Smiths of Derby (FBU Manufacturing Award winner), Heather Whitworth (5th Generation) and Nick Whitworth (6th generation) Family Business Directors, plus Alan Frost, Consulting Director at Mazars. In this episode, they demonstrate the importance of building a sustainable business, the competitive advantage a family business can bring to the table, the importance of non-family board members, bringing in the next generation and how to adapt and protect your business for the long term.
In this episode, the importance of building a sustainable business and the competitive advantage a family business can bring to the table are discussed along with understanding the importance of non-family board members, bringing in the next generation and how to adapt and protect your business for the short and long term.
Building a sustainable business 4m 30
There are three things to safeguard: company reputation, family and clients. There will be times when difficult decisions have to made in order to maintain the company’s future, however understanding how to be adaptable, putting it into practice and making those changes can pay off.
Challenges with strategy and direction 9m 40
Having a family business can be a challenging thing in itself, therefore having both family and non- family members involved in decision making can be essential to ensure options are critiqued and analysed from different angles, so that the business benefits for the long term.
Benefits of having a non-family member in a leader position 11m 25
It’s key to key communication channels open when having a non-family member. That way, as Heather points out, it can be a really exciting time as it brings new energy, ways of working and a fresh view on the company that some family members may not have thought of.
The difficulties that come with being a non-family member 13m 50
Within a family business, there should be no egos and you have to work as part of a team. Being an outsider and coming into with wider experience and skills means you do have to be humble and understand that for others, the business is their livelihood. Sometimes there can be disagreements, but this is good to have as it allows employees to express themselves, be confident enough to give an opinion and continue building relationships.
Going beyond the here and now 19m 57
It may be hard to see beyond what this year has brought in terms of the pandemic but still planning ahead whether that be the next year, the next five years or next decade is still something businesses should do and when it comes to the future, businesses should strive to invest in people by training them and developing their skill sets.
What the next generation bring 26m 45
A new generation can bring practicality, experience from past careers and knowledge from various industries, while still understanding they have a responsibility to the business.
Advice for the next generation 35m
Have the want, commitment, desire, interest and longing for the business to be successful. Speak to customers that the business serves, get the feedback, understand what the business can offer and think about resolutions. There are always ways to directly and indirectly learn within the company and don’t be afraid to ask for help.
Mazars
Email: contact@mazars.co.uk
Twitter: @Mazars_UK
Facebook: Mazars UK
LinkedIn: Mazars UK
In 2018, we launched our first Family Business survey in partnership with Family Business United. The survey revealed the challenges, opportunities and issues that family businesses are facing on a daily basis. And whilst the specific detail may change because of external factors, such as Brexit and now the global pandemic, it became clear that there are a number of issues that family businesses will always face, so we wanted to continue with our research in 2019 with a second survey and our 2020 survey will be published this Autumn.
To view the Family Business Survey 2019, click here
To request a copy of the Family Business survey when it is released, click here
Special Guest - Smiths of Derby
Twitter: @SmithofDerby
LinkedIn: Smith of Derby Limited
Natalie Wright:
Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of exploring family business with [Mazars 00:00:08]. I'm your host Natalie Wright and in this week's episode we're looking at sustainability and managing growth which featured as the second highest concern for UK family business owners in our 2019 family business survey.
I've also included a link to the survey. Joining me today to explore the subject are three members of the Smiths [00:00:30] of Derby team. A 164 year old family business based in Derbyshire. We have Bob Betts the managing director of the business, Heather Whitworth a director of the group and a member of the fifth generation, and Nick Whitworth a sixth generation family member.
e also have Alan Frost who joined me on last week's episode. Alan is a director from the Mazars consortium team who specializes in working with family business supporting them as they adapt and pivot their business, [00:01:00] focus on long-term growth.
Thank you all for joining us today. So earlier this year I was introduced to Smiths of Derby when I reviewed their submission as parts of the judging panel for the national family business awards. I was really impressed with how the business has managed to create a union of family and nonfamily members working in collaboration towards a share vision and how this has helped them to continue to grow and build a sustainable business which honours their values and culture.
[00:01:30] Bob, Heather, and Nick, could you tell our listeners more about your business and the roles that you each have? Bob, if we can start with you first?
Bob Betts:
Thanks, Natalie. I'm Bob Betts, I'm the managing director of Smiths of Derby Limited and as you said 164 years young. So it's great to be leading a successful business and a family business. Working as one team, it's great to be able to explore and discuss some of that because we're usually just engrossed in day-to-day operating side of the business. So it a pleasure to be [00:02:00] exploring that with you today. And I'll hand over quickly for intro to Heather and Nick.
Heather Whitworth:
Thanks very much. My name is Heather Whitworth. I'm fifth generation family member and director of group unlimited. I've been involved with the company since school, not always full time, but always with some kind of a presence. I don't have a fixed role within the company but in recent years I've been involved in building and place improvement, special projects and people engagement.
At the moment [00:02:30] for example we're looking at a project to protect and curate our family archives. I attend all of the senior team meetings and the Board meetings and together with my brother Joe and Jeremy Bowler we form a sort of communication bridge with the rest of the family while working with Bob and the senior team.I'll hand over to Nick.
Nick Whitworth:
Thank you. My role I suppose is twofold, one is as a member of the sixth generation and the other as offering film [00:03:00] and media support. In terms of the sixth generation we, there are a number of us and our ages range right from about seven or eight to 30. So part of my role as that is listening and learning from those who were involved in the day-to-day running but we also have kind of had various work experience at the company over the years.
We're part of the social occasions and conversations around future decisions, and then with [00:03:30] the film and media support I kind of help out part time when I can with story-telling, helping to communicate who we are as a company primarily through images and audio but at other ways as well. So yeah thanks.
Natalie Wright:
That's great. Thank you and just to say it really is a privilege to have all three of you with us today and I'd like to pass on our congratulations again to you and your wider team on the three awards that you won, it was very well deserved. And one point that came through clearly [00:04:00] in your application was how important your culture is and that this really feeds into your strategy on an ongoing basis.
There was really a clear sense of commitment to that long-term with a focus on your customers, employees, your supply chain and your local community. So, Heather, if I could come to you first, how have you concentrated on building a sustainable business particularly in recent times and do you feel that being a family business has given [00:04:30] you a competitive advantage in this regard?
Heather Whitworth:
Well as a family company we've always set out to safeguard those, well all three, the reputation of the company, the family, and our clients. And there were times when difficult decisions have to be made in order to keep the company going for the future but we've always tried to look ahead and make these decisions in good time.
We try and be adaptable. We try and make decisions quickly if necessary and for example, [00:05:00] it was about seven or eight years ago, Bob, we sat in a meeting and we looked at the age demographic of our clock makers and realized that within about 20 years they're all going to fall off the cliff edge and we were going to be left with nobody. I think I'm right, Bob?
Bob Betts:
Absolutely.
Heather Whitworth:
And we start, we stand in that meeting and just during the meeting decided right, we're setting up an apprenticeship program and we realized at the time it was going to be very expensive in money but also in time because you can't just turn a young, a young person into [00:05:30] a clock maker in and that has continued. I think we're on our seventh apprentice. I think we're...
Bob Betts:
Yes, seventh or eight [crosstalk 00:05:38] looking.
Heather Whitworth:
Yeah.
Bob Betts:
And that's something else as well we haven't stopped because it's something that we'd have to renew every year now.
Heather Whitworth:
Yeah. And another thing which Bob and I were involved in was as the lockdown, well lockdown hadn't happened but we were becoming increasingly concerned about our customers but also our own staff and Bob had a phone call, and pretty much during that phone [00:06:00] call we sort of turned into how's it all going to actually, I think, Bob, we need to shut down, didn't we?
Bob Betts:
Yeah.
Heather Whitworth:
And that was done in that quick phone call and then Bob and the team managed to shut us down safely looking after everybody in a matter of days, and that was actually a few days before the government made the decision. So I think it was a great move by Bob to get that organized for us.
We try and run the business as efficiently as we possible as we can and continue a process. We try, you know don't cut corners and [00:06:30] we don't want to sacrifice care for our customers. We continue to invest in training and technology which is incredibly important but another aspect which I think can't be forgotten is wellbeing of the staff which is a really important aspect of how we run the company and it always has.
Present day live for our staff can be complicated and we try and be flexible on that front as well. I think we have a form, I don't know if you call it flextime but there's definitely a move [00:07:00] to be helpful to people that work with us.
Another factor is that we've always as a family and generation's been aware of the need to keep back something for a rainy day, an incredibly difficult thing to do in business, but there's no doubt this has helped the company survive when we've had challenging times.
I think the customers like the fact that we're a family company. They know we've survived difficult economic times and we're still here moving forward and developing while still caring for them.
Natalie Wright:
It's obvious, [00:07:30] Heather, from what you've discussed there that values are really key to the sustainability of the business and you know you encompass that with not just the family but all of the team and that really comes through with the communication that you're obviously giving out externally and within the business. I think it's fair to say that one thing that what we often come up against with family businesses is that sometimes that legacy and concept of tradition can often get in the way of long-term growth plans and [00:08:00] we can see that sometimes when the next generation starts to become more involved there can be issues around what sustainability means and how to implement perhaps new strategies particularly when it involves a large degree of change.
Now, Alan, from your experience, how do you see family businesses focus then on sustainability?
Alan Frost:
I think it's interest that, I would probably say family businesses are either end of the spectrum, either it's incredibly important and they can already see [00:08:30] the next generations coming through and that is paramount to their existence. Or the opposite end of the spectrum which is very much, well I've been passed this family business from the generation above me and role is actually to preserve and just keep it going and perhaps struggle to think any further on from that.
And I supposed coming from a family business myself and I was the fourth gen, fourth and final unfortunately, generation within the family business, I very much saw that [00:09:00] myself. My father's role, he felt was to preserve what was passed, had been passed to him and we had to make some very, very difficult decisions, a bit like what's been said previously.
So focusing on that long-term future is so probably, there's no way that probably the first to fifth generations of Smiths were really thinking about film and media support whereas when Nick came on as the sixth generation you were able to teach people that have been in the business for a much longer period of time than [00:09:30] yourself, the new ways of working. And hopefully and I'm sure by the sounds of it, everybody was open to that sort of skills set that a younger generation can bring into the family business and have accepted it and benefited from it extensively.
Natalie Wright:
You pick up on some really good points there, Alan, and actually having experienced it yourself I bet you can talk about it firsthand. What challenges do you see particularly for family businesses when there needs to be that change of strategy or direction?
Alan Frost:
You know it's an incredibly [00:10:00] emotional thing to have to do, it's incredibly brave I suppose as well to take have taken a family business that we all know will have been for large parts of your life the only thing that was spoken about at home as well in the office, to then raise the potential concept that we're not, perhaps there is a better way of doing it or a different way, and we need to move away from what our parents and our grandparents and potentially our great grandparents have built for the current generation.
[00:10:30] It's probably one of the hardest things you could look to have to do in a family business to be perfectly honest and having, I think perhaps both family and nonfamily members involved in that sort of decision making, I think can be essential to ensure that you do critique and analyse all the different options and make a decision that is the right decision for the future, for the long-term future of the business even if that means you become a very different business to perhaps what previous generations have been.
Natalie Wright:
Heather, picking up on the point [00:11:00] about change. One issue that we often come up against is family businesses perhaps not wanting to make a change or give up control of the day-to-day running of the business. And from what I understand there's been various points throughout the history of your business when it has been built on a non-family member team so that they're been in place to support and manage operations until the next generation was ready to take over.
So what advice would you give to any family businesses that are maybe reticent about [00:11:30] bringing in a nonfamily on board in a leadership position and what benefits do you think it's brought both to the business and your family?
Heather Whitworth:
I think if anybody came to me and ask whether or not bringing a non-family member on, I would say definitely be open to it. You do have to choose the individual very carefully and that individual, so you'll have to look within himself to see whether they can work well with the family because there's a whole load of different dynamics [00:12:00] that come in a boardroom meeting that, I mean, there were days when Bob would have my 100 year old granny sitting at the table asking very pertinent questions but you have to be ready for that and you have to be quite resilient, I think.
But definitely with you've got, you know you've got, if you get the individual involved it can take time to work well together but it can work really well. I mean you know, so it can really work very well.
As you've said we've had a long history of non-family involvement [00:12:30] when my grandfather and his brothers, their father died when they were very young. Yes, they had two long-serving employees who could have looked after the business and train them up until they were ready to take over. We've also had a previous MD before Bob, Peter Sully who also did great job.
Throughout of all of this I think it is a little bit like a marriage in that it can be difficult and you do what come at it from different points of view, but as long as you keep talking and [00:13:00] it can be really, really exciting. It can bring new energy, new ways of working and a real fresh view on the company which some of us might have lost, if as you say, we're still talking about it over the cereal on a Sunday morning. We're not, we're not thinking, maybe in different ways.
We also have an external Chairman called Jeremy Bowler whose known the company for years and he does a great job of acting as a sort of bridge, sounding board, whatever you like between Bob and family and sometimes, [00:13:30] not that there've been, there're always the slight challenges but it's always been great to have Jeremy so that either Bob can go to him and have a bit of a chat, or we can do the same thing. And we managed to work well like that. So yes, I would say, really do think about it, it can be great.
Natalie Wright:
Picking up on that then, Bob, looking at it from the other side, what are your views on what you've been able to perhaps bring to the business or maybe any challenges that you found?
Bob Betts:
I think everyone's been on point today that you have to be brave as a family business, [00:14:00] you have to look at all the generations, all the contributions you can bring. I do remember Betty Smith, the grandma around the table. She was one of the sharpest knives in [inaudible 00:14:09].
There are no egos around that table. You have to work as one team and if you bring in somebody externally of course you're bringing in wider experience from different industries, different policies, procedures, skills in customer relationship management, marketing, whatever you've chosen as that employee coming onboard.
[00:14:30] So they've got to have a mix and you've got to be, you've got to be humble with it as well because you've got to understand that all of this sixth generation businesses live and breath that business. The responsibility is enormous.
We talk about family, and Heather and Alan and Natalie, you've used the word family today and I think there is nothing greater and longer in the human psyche as family and [00:15:00] therefore as you run a family business you treat every employee with respect, and you almost have to consider the customer as well, the client, the suppliers.
You view everybody the same way, you are generating the strength within that you can build on that and move from strength to strength and get through troubled times. Yes, we're profitable. We haven't always been. Yes, we've been through as Betty [00:15:30] Smith told me, some wars. She must have seen two or three wars.
So I'm sure financial crisis and COVID was a walk in the park but Nick Smith who brought me onboard, the brave side there was that I was the first MD that was not from within the company. So I was not a clockmaker. I was not an engineer. I'd been brought in more as a marketing, a sales, a foreign relationship guy because Nick wanted [00:16:00] to get internationally. He wanted me to get on a plane and go where the cranes were still operating so that we could have a wider, saver, more broad pipeline of opportunity, and breadth and depth company.
Those 13 years ago Nick at hindsight, he thought things would develop, things could change, things could impact the company and the company itself has continued develop both its own staff [00:16:30] but also its relationships with the family.
And we have candid conversations, we have things when the family disagreed what we want to do and I think that's important as well that we can disagree. And we can both agree to disagree or to [inaudible 00:16:49] change something. Those relationships can only build with strength over time. You can't have somebody come in for a couple of years, move on.
[00:17:00] So I think also looking at the strength of bringing people in there's got to be this consistency. There's got to be a loyalty, there's got to be longevity and there's got to be that consistency of what the family are looking for and what the employee coming in is looking for.
I came from an environment, I'd been at IBM for 20 years. That company looked at the stock price on a quarterly basis. It obviously told the market how it was doing. [00:17:30] The operating team looked at it monthly, weekly and if you're in the production side, daily, on what was going out the door, what was being billed.
One of the reasons this company is a 164 years young is that it looks at it, yes, we report numbers on a quarterly basis, of course we do, but the strategy looks at it on a yearly and a five yearly and even a decade basis. I would not be here today [00:18:00] if the family had taken a view of looking at things less than three years.
Natalie Wright:
I think picking up on a number of points that you mentioned there actually clearly business transformation is something that's been talked about a lot at the moment, Bob, and we don't know the full effects of what's gone on this year, but creating those strong relationships in the business, the family, the employees, the management team.
Do you think [00:18:30] that is a large contribution to help leading the business and being stewardship for the business to get that balance for the long-term but still being able to operate profitably?
Bob Betts:
Yeah, I think you used the word, balance, there. It's that balance, it's the balance of being able to run the operating side of the business, take decisions that I know I can take, that I know I don't have to ask about, that I know what the answer would be if I ask.
[00:19:00] Then you have to balance it with the points, the questions you have to take that are either pretty expensive or if you get them wrong, very expensive. And of course, the family is integrated into the operating side of the business where we're looking at sustainability, environmental investment, boilers, lighting systems [00:19:30] and so on.
But when it comes to letting people go, recruitment, development of people, pats on the back, the odd realignment conversation, let's say, operating wise, you have to have the trust ultimately the approval just to get on with it. You don't have the time to [inaudible 00:19:55].
Natalie Wright:
I think that's a really fair point and actually that reactive [00:20:00] point that you mention. So one thing that we do see some businesses do in which as a short-term measure which perhaps is possibly a mistake for future proofing it, is cutting back on staff training, delaying expansion in the short-term for that positive result right now. But without truly understanding what the impact on the business is longer term and having that reactive mode, moving over to you, Alan, [00:20:30] what advice do you have for any family businesses who are struggling to stay beyond the here and now and really can't see where the future lies?
Alan Frost:
It is hard to perhaps see past the end of this year, or this pandemic in particular at the moment and undoubtedly having a forecast or a [inaudible 00:20:50] for the next year, a plan for the next five years, or in the case of Smiths a plan for the next decade, is fantastic even if they have to be rewritten on an annual basis.
[00:21:00] But that investment in people in particular is I think is the most prevalent and the strongest, and I'm sure if we spoke to all of the different generations of the Smiths of Derby business, they will all have different stories around how you've invested in people. And there'll be people undoubtedly in that business that have been there since they were young boys or girls and grown up with the company.
That said, it is incredibly difficult particularly for family members when they come to have to make decisions [00:21:30] about perhaps cutting back on people that there'll be people that they almost feel like as part of the family even though that they don't share the same surname or blood. And in actual fact a business not long ago but by the MD who was a family member has had to let go a number of members of staff who, he remembers walk into the yard and see when he was a little boy. He's done that so unfortunately and that role within the firm. An incredibly difficult thing to do but the right thing [00:22:00] unfortunately for the business and the long-term business for him to be able to pass it onto future generations.
But that investment in people, more so in a family business than anywhere else, I think is absolutely key. You will see a loyalty in family businesses that I don't think you'll see in corporate businesses and I know Bob spent 20 years at IBM and that which is a fantastic stint, but I think you will see that that type of experience and longevity and loyalty in family [00:22:30] business and more so than anywhere else.
And that doesn't just create a job for life sort of attitude it really improves the culture, the working environment, I think to attract new people into organizations but it's also a clear message that people are important, family's important form an ownership perspective. But then also people and investing in those people from the training, the development and improving their skills set, both technical skills and soft skills, is important to the family and that's [00:23:00] incredibly rewarding, I think as a, if I was an employee in a family business.
Natalie Wright:
Heather, investing in training, that's something the business has always been committed to, isn't it? Can you tell us a bit more about why the apprenticeship program was so important to the development and growth of the business?
Heather Whitworth:
Our clockmakers are incredibly skilled people as are all of the people that support them back at the workshop, the whole team. But we, the meeting that I was talking about earlier, we sat there and we realized that if we're looking ahead [00:23:30] at the company and the next generation, when, if these clockmakers finish and we haven't managed to train a new, the new set of skills, no one else in the country [inaudible 00:23:40] doing and it's an industry, we can't, we don't, we can't let that die.
And so it was, it was important on many different levels, but also as the apprentices, I think, I don't if Bob will agree with this, as the apprentices started to come through it had an effect on the other clockmakers as well, I think. That kind of rejuvenated them a bit and made [00:24:00] them, made them interested again.
And yes, the young bring in new skills, they're not frightened of the new technology. They will show somebody else who might be more mature and not used to it, how to do it. And also I think it just made for new energy and it's been really, really fantastic and of course it's been wonderful to share that with our clients and our customers. And I think they've enjoyed the story as well.
So it's been really great and it does come with cost, it does come with time. I was in a couple [00:24:30] of weeks ago and one the chaps who's very knowledgeable was literally, we had a young clockmaker learning on the phone trying to do [inaudible 00:24:38] responses and Tony's having to turn to him every five minutes to give him a bit of advice. You know that advice is going in and really, really important for the long-term of the company. So, yes. It's been a fantastic move.
Bob Betts:
Yeah, we have, the apprentices, you can imagine there isn't something off the shelf for a clockmaker apprentice. [00:25:00] So we've had to work with third parties and training providers, and probably more than most businesses we've had to look at it ourselves and say, it isn't out there so we've got to build our own training facility.
So we probably got what we think is the world's only [inaudible 00:25:19] clock training facility which is purpose built here at the work. We have a buddying program that the guys not only go to college, not only go to our [00:25:30] training room here that we, that we purposefully built but they buddy up outside as Heather said with the older crew.
And of course that, they breathe new life into them because the guys have responded brilliantly and they've won the younger lads with them. They get a kick out of passing on knowledge, on knowhow. And with something that isn't black and white, clock making is a, is a thing that they have buddy up. You cannot learn it in the [00:26:00] training room alone or in a workshop or on [inaudible 00:26:03].
They've got to listen, they've got to watch what the clockmaker does and they've got to learn from wearing the boots and up in the tower. So it's an incredible job and one that like Heather says, who else can do it. So we're very proud of that.
Alan Frost:
But it's interesting, isn't it because I'm sure that's how Tony learns as well however many years ago [crosstalk 00:26:26].
Heather Whitworth: Definitely.
Alan Frost:
Someone, someone turning to him every five minutes thinking, [00:26:30] I tell you how to do this and how to do this. So good.
Bob Betts: Yeah, yeah.
Natalie Wright:
I mean, it is clear that that investment in training, in developing skills, in knowledge sharing, skill sharing, that's vital for the continued sustainability of the business. So looking at the longer term, let's move onto thoughts of the next generation and, Nick, you're a member of the sixth generation, or G6 as I think you more fondly referred to. I understand that you're bringing in a new dimension [00:27:00] to the business now. So can you tell me more about the skills you think you and maybe other G6 members are bringing that will help the business kind of focus on sustainability?
Nick Whitworth:
Well I've had the word responsibility kind of crop up time and time again and yeah there is, yeah that does feel as a sixth generation member as though there is some responsibility for what might come next.
In terms of what we as that generation are offering, [00:27:30] I think I suppose on a practical front we, there are, there are few of us with our, with our own careers and that's, that is something where we're able to bring in knowledge from where we're at in a number of different industries and while we're not necessarily involved full-time with the business we are, we are involved in lots of conversations and we try and [inaudible 00:27:54] along monthly meetings when we can and, and then and ask questions and listen.
And so, and so [00:28:00] what you have is, you have young people and, I suppose you're talking under 30, and by their nature of being young you are looking to the future, you're thinking kind of longer term to that. And so what, part of what we're able to offer is questions but I suppose personally I've been, I've been with my kind of, my background or at least my current main career is in, is in media production and documentaries and how we can communicate stories.
Yeah, lots and lots of companies, [00:28:30] family companies, however big or small are learning that to tell the story of who you are and how you've got to be where you are and, is important. And then combining that with the fact that photography, image, and podcasts like this, these are, these are wonderful avenues to connect [inaudible 00:28:51] and cooperate with other.
And so yeah because there are conversations and I think yeah, with this, there are [00:29:00] a number of them, there're seven or eight of us of the young, in varying ages in our 20s and some have got some finance skills and some have got some design skills and some math skills, and a company's made up of many, of many inputs.
Natalie Wright:
Sounds like you've got really good collection of new skills coming through the business as well and then when we talk about innovation people often think just about technology. And actually that it was interesting picking up on the points and you mentioned it before, [00:29:30] Alan, about media and 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago who would have known that you'd be bringing media skills now to help the business think about innovation and future proofing it.
So, I think it is really interesting to see that new skill set of G6 how they might change and pivot the business going forward while still being aware of the fact that it is still quite a traditional industry that you're operating in and that you've mentioned it, Heather, that you want to protect for the longer term.
[00:30:00] You don't me asking, Nick, have you ever felt any pressure to move into the family business or have you felt [inaudible 00:30:06] and that whole transition, and sorry to put you on the spot with [crosstalk 00:30:09].
Nick Whitworth:
No, no, I think that is a relevant question and referencing what Alan were saying earlier about that, it can, it can be really, I imagine it can be a really difficult thing particularly maybe in the early stages of generations, that first or second generation where there aren't so many potential contributors.
[00:30:30] You might be an only child or there might just a couple of siblings and so I can't speak from that regard and I don't know what it was like for my great, great grandfather and that those, when it has been only my grandfather actually when he had, he was faced with the responsibility of what's on his shoulders whether this was going, was he going to commit to this company when he had in fact, I think he'd had a strong plan to go and pursue an accountancy career in Canada and he returned [00:31:00] to the company.
And so and I really, I'm very, I'm becoming more and more appreciative of that move that he did because he didn't just do it for himself, but he did it for the venture part of the company right across it.
Have I felt pressure myself? I haven't. I think and I've been given the freedom to, and we all have, to pursue our own careers and our own passions and I'd say, that's an advantage [00:31:30] but what is great about the setup we've got is that there is an opportunity to be involved, to show interest, to also that's a fortunate position to be in to have that kind of, to some degree, an opt in, opt out but I must say that, well, that I myself have found, I'm 28 now, but it's turning maybe in the last four or five years that I've really come to gain a greater appreciation of the family company.
And so maybe when you're 12, 13 [00:32:00] and you know and it doesn't seem special because you've always just heard about it, then it's kind of it's, it's you pop into the works and speak with others and grandpa talks about it with granny and.
But I suppose having worked for a few small companies myself in a separate regard, couple of which have been family companies, I've seen some of the things they've done well and some things they've not done so well. And that's given me a really good, well it's given me an appreciation [00:32:30] of what a great thing we've done.
I think one great thing we've done and particular, and it shows in hard times, is Bob and the senior management team and have been really great about communication with the staff about what's going on because often there can be maybe this mismatch between management and employee.
And so yes, communicate them and say this is what, this what we're responding to, this is what we're planning for and to have that kind sense of community and conversation is really valuable.
Natalie Wright:
I [00:33:00] mean, going through hard times it's, nothing's probably been harder than 2020 but for most family businesses from your perspective probably more so Heather and Nick, transitioning gradually from G5 to G6, do you think this year has perhaps given G6 a different perspective of where they might see the future of the business or their role in it.
Or, Heather, do you think you're needing to kind of maybe [00:33:30] have a bit more of a stewardship to help them think about the challenges that might lie ahead?
Heather Whitworth:
This may seem like a strange answer but we haven't actually, although we've talked about the personal situations, immediate personal situations, I don't think there's been and who knows if, are we mad, there's not been a fear that the company won't make it. I mean, there's not been a discussion of us not moving forward. I think, I think the family have got great faith in the senior [00:34:00] team and seeing how they have dealt with COVID, I've said the word, and I think we're on COVID number 12 newsletter, are we, Bob? I don't know, I can't remember.
Bob Betts: 13, 13.
Heather Whitworth:
13, there you go. So there's been lots of information coming around. I think they feel and they have friends who have worked for companies who there was just no communication, and no, the [inaudible 00:34:22] that I feel that there is, there's not maybe the fear or the anxiety about the future that there might have been.
[00:34:30] I think we're not, they are not probably looking forward too much on that point really but I'm, I've got great confidence that we've, the things are being, the senior team are really dealing with things well. So I, yes, I don't think, I don't think we've really had that conversation. But I would be surprised if it's really, really worrying them.
Natalie Wright:
And, Nick, to you then, do you have any advice to offer to the, to the next generation of other family businesses who are now thinking about entering the business and responsibility [00:35:00] that lies ahead. I know you're not fully in the business at the moment, you've still got another role, but you're obviously transitioning and you've mentioned that being involved in the business for quite some years.
Is there anything that maybe you wish you'd have spoken with your parents about at an earlier stage or any other advice that you could give to the next generation?
Nick Whitworth:
What helps you make a decision about your own involvement and you do, I mean, I'm not at this stage yet, but I'm envisaging it, is that if you are going to take some form [00:35:30] of commitment and leadership to the family company, there needs to be balance and kind of, there needs to be coming from your own, from desire to be, to be a part of it. You know you do need to have an authentic desire and interest and longing to, for its success.
And so you shouldn't [inaudible 00:35:48] yourself up over the head if you don't have that. I think to have the enthusiasm okay that's one thing, but how do you get that? You get that by in part sometimes doing a bit of work away from the family company. So I'm, I'm not advocating [00:36:00] for people to leave family companies but if you can do, if you're already working within it then to gain some understanding of what it might be like to work for another company could be a good reference point.
But also if you are not on the other side, if you're not working full-time within the family company, are you in some small sense learning a bit more about what is good about it. Are there some of those who've worked there for a while that you could talk to, maybe that aren't family members that can give you a different perspective.
And you go out and speak to some of [00:36:30] the customers that your family business's serve, what do they think about, I don't know if you're in, if you're in food are people, it's just if people are raging about the food you can offer and you might not be fully aware of that, you haven't yet spoken to those who are sampling it or...
And so if there are ways that you can learn directly or indirectly about the positives of your company, that can help inform your own judgment and don't, and don't rule it out too early [00:37:00] as well just because you're not actually desperate to be there Monday to Friday right now doesn't mean that in five years’ time you might not.
So having a kind of openness and if you are in a position to get others in to help you but if you don't feel like direct involvement that's a great thing, but there are many, there are many challenges. I'm not trying to make this sound like it's an easy thing. And yeah, we're always working it out.
Natalie Wright: That's great.
Bob Betts: [crosstalk 00:37:28] through the interview anyway.
Nick Whitworth: [00:37:30] That's true.
Natalie Wright: Thanks for sharing, Nick. It's never easy when another member of the family's with you [crosstalk 00:37:37].
Heather Whitworth: [crosstalk 00:37:37].
Natalie Wright: Thank you. I'd like to say thank you again to you all. It has been really interesting to learn more about the business and actually different dynamics having the three of you here taking part in this. And as the business does transition over to that next generation you're all clearly very proud of the business and the heritage and the legacy and quite [00:38:00] rightly so, but you are very much focused on evolution and innovation, and that's really great to see especially in such a traditionally kind of focused business.
Where can people find out more about the business and the projects that you're working on because I did have a peak at some of them that you've been involved in recently.
Bob Betts:
Yeah, we've got. We've got a great website, Natalie, smithofderby.com and we're pretty active on Twitter and so on. [00:38:30] So please visit that website, have a good look around and if any [inaudible 00:38:34] clockmakers or apprentices out there, sons and daughters of moms and dads, point them our way. We're always, always lovely to talk to everybody who may have a passion in horology.
Natalie Wright:
That's great. Thanks, Bob, and we really look forward seeing what comes next for the business. So thank you all again for joining us. That brings the fourth episode of exploring family business podcasts with Mazars to a close.
If [00:39:00] you enjoyed today's show, please subscribe to the series and leave a review on iTunes. It will help us to extend our reach to the family business community that we can continue to share our knowledge and that of our guests. If you want to know more about anything that we've discussed today of if you have any specific topics in mind that you would like us to cover in future episodes, [inaudible 00:39:21] links in the show notes to our guests along with our contact details.
Join us next week when we'll be interviewing Lou Frankland Managing [00:39:30] Director and co-owner Mansfield Pollard, an award winning manufacturing business based in Bradford. Lou took over the management and ownership of the business in February this year along with her business partner Brian Bentley just one month before the UK went into lockdown.
Lou will share with us her experience of buying a 150 year old established family business, the challenges she has faced this year and how her experience in previous businesses has helped her to focus on growth.
[00:40:00] I look forward to sharing more with you then but for now thank you for listening. This year Financial Planning Week runs from the fifth to the 11th of October. This is a national initiative to raise awareness of the importance of financial planning.
If you'd like to book a free initial consultation to review your personal finances whether it’ s to discuss your retirement plans, savings and investments, optimizing tax efficiency, or simply to get some peace of mind about your family's financial security [00:40:30] please email contact@mazars.co.uk.